In this exclusive This Is Jazz interview, pianist and composer Aaron Parks discusses his approach to jazz music, emphasizing the importance of cultivating a unique sound, the role of improvisation, and the emotional depth in musical expression. He shares insights on harmonic exploration, the significance of listening, and the balance between academic study and personal exploration in music. In this conversation, Aaron Parks and Quentin Walston delve into the evolution of modern piano techniques, the intersection of academic learning and real-world experience in jazz, and the influence of legendary musicians on their craft. They discuss the importance of personal expression in music, the need for hands-on learning, and the excitement surrounding upcoming projects that celebrate the swing tradition in jazz.
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Interview Transcript
Quentin Walston (02:08.751)
Welcome Aaron Parks, pianist, composer, bandleader, just huge influence on the jazz scene. We are so happy to have you. Thanks for sitting down and chat today.
Aaron (02:31.662)
Hey, my pleasure, Quentin. Thanks for having me,
Quentin Walston (02:34.351)
Absolutely. So I have a lot of questions I’ve been listening. I’ve been listening to your music for years and I was really digging in recently and I wanted to just dive right out of the gate with your sound and if I guess kind of the intentionality behind it. So when you craft your sound, and I know sometimes things are intentional about how we play or how we want to play.
I’m a jazz pianist myself, by the way, just so you know. Some things just come out naturally. Just like, it’s just your personality emerges through your instrument. You don’t have to be intentional about it. But I think sometimes there is kind of like a hierarchy of things that we wanna do. for instance, when I think of Monk, he seems to really want to execute the tune. Like he’ll do an intro that’s the tune and he’ll comp with the tune and he’ll solo with the tune. It’s like…
Aaron (03:06.53)
Mm-hmm. Yep.
Quentin Walston (03:32.547)
that’s so ingrained in his style or if you look at like Coltrane in the late 50s, it’s like he wanted to get out every idea he could simultaneously. That’s where you get all the sheets of sound. So I know this is a super long question out of the gate, but for you, is there like a hierarchy of things that you really want to say with your sound?
Aaron (03:47.417)
It’s all right.
Aaron (03:57.102)
That’s a big question. And let’s see how to tackle it. think it’s in a few parts, perhaps. First of all,
Quentin Walston (04:00.311)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (04:05.316)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron (04:11.234)
I think that you’re right in that there is an essence, I suppose you might call it, that everyone has at their core, that it just is their own particular little spark and their own thing that sort of can’t help but being, but coming into the world.
Quentin Walston (04:33.604)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron (04:36.856)
For me personally, the way that I’ve come to think about music and this idea of finding one’s own sound is less as something that should be.
Quentin Walston (04:47.865)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron (04:57.07)
thought necessarily, you don’t want to seek it out. It’s more of something that you cultivate the conditions for it to arise.
Quentin Walston (05:05.935)
Mmm.
Quentin Walston (05:09.465)
Interesting,
Aaron (05:10.2)
So rather than a construction project, it’s a gardening one, if that makes sense. so I think a lot of focus, especially in school environments and to some degree, yeah, I mean, just sort of the online learning type of thing as well, there’s a lot of emphasis on discrete skills.
Quentin Walston (05:14.607)
Hmm. Yeah, absolutely.
Quentin Walston (05:26.425)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (05:37.945)
Hmm.
Aaron (05:39.296)
learn how to do this little, you know, here’s the two, five, one hack that’s going to hook you up. You know, it’s sort of a Buzzfeed style, you know, improvisation headlines. And
Quentin Walston (05:51.215)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron (05:55.286)
Those can be useful things sometimes to give you some strategies and some games to play and explore things. But I think I’m going a long way to your question. I’m going to also answer the question directly. I think that some of the time we lose sight of, well, I mean,
Quentin Walston (06:02.031)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (06:07.951)
I love it. No, this is great.
Aaron (06:24.428)
I don’t think that it’s, at least for me, the music that I really love listening to and the music and what feels correct to me is, you know that feeling of when you have been working on something at home, learning some new skills, some new, whatever it might be. And then you try to go to the bandstand or the jam session.
Quentin Walston (06:44.217)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (06:50.767)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Aaron (06:54.284)
and you try to do it and it sort of crumbles and turns to dust in your hands. The way I’ve come to think about that, it’s a little bit like showing up on a date with pickup lines, you know? And so with music, for me, the goal is to, as I say, do all of this work, cultivate the conditions within and like work on things that are…
Quentin Walston (06:58.787)
Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
Quentin Walston (07:07.599)
That’s great. I love that. Yeah.
Quentin Walston (07:18.926)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron (07:23.84)
of interest to you.
Quentin Walston (07:25.327)
Mmm.
Aaron (07:28.866)
building your taste, building… There is that element of construction for sure, but ultimately it’s a matter of whatever you’re working on is planting seeds and then letting go, letting that garden grow, turning to it from time to time, making sure that what’s growing there is what you want to grow. are there too many weeds? Maybe the flowers are getting a little bit too…
Quentin Walston (07:35.95)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (07:40.676)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (07:50.424)
Right.
Aaron (07:57.422)
ostentatious. I’m, you know, going a little heavy on the metaphor out of the gate here, but
Quentin Walston (07:59.055)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (08:03.107)
Yeah. I love it. when that translates to when you’re working with your band, is it a lot of not planning things out and trying to give that room for let’s see what emerges? I mean, there’s like the whole stories of like Miles the Second Great Quintet never rehearsing or Bill Evans’s trio never rehearsing or Wayne Shorter never rehearsing. Is it that kind of thing where it’s like,
We have our skills and we want to see what emerges or is that something that’s a little bit more personal? Like I know what I want and I’m not going to force technique out.
Aaron (08:43.79)
I think that’s a little bit more for me in a personal, as a performer, just my individual sense of musicality, rather than trying to craft myself into be like a jazz superhero who can like, know, business cards, we don’t really do that much anymore, but you know, all styles, it says, right? know, rather than that kind of thing.
Quentin Walston (08:49.359)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (08:54.788)
Mmm.
Quentin Walston (09:06.189)
The, right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Aaron (09:14.702)
I’m more interested in being the kind of person who, like you were saying about Monk, Monk serves the song before anything, right? And his approach becomes tailor-made according to his own particular taste and his own style.
Quentin Walston (09:28.489)
Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Quentin Walston (09:43.375)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron (09:45.102)
to serve each individual song. And so that’s what I’m after in my own very different way, which is to serve the song. What is the circumstance in which we’re creating music? Is it completely improvised? Is it something which is much more highly structured, a band of mine like Little Big, which I would say there’s a lot of communication about what
Quentin Walston (09:47.471)
Mmm.
Quentin Walston (09:51.95)
Mmm.
Quentin Walston (10:00.879)
Hmm.
Aaron (10:13.312)
we imagine for different songs or in some of my more acoustic projects where more and more I lean towards not saying much of anything at all. And for me, volume one, volume two, the trio with Ben Street and Billy Hart, the upcoming quartet record that’s gonna come out later this year. Yeah, with Ben Street, Billy Hart and Ben Solomon on tenor saxophone.
Quentin Walston (10:15.417)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (10:22.639)
Hmm like the volume 1 volume 2 albums
Aaron (10:43.192)
So yeah, that’s yeah, sort of a long way around, but some of what I might say about that.
Quentin Walston (10:48.279)
Well, that’s, yeah. I think that’s really insightful, especially when I listen to your music, it’s very, I want to say like emotionally charged. And I think that just the way you’ve described your approach, it would be harder to achieve that kind of, think, genuine emotion if you were just out to, I’m going to.
play my favorite 251 licks and use this voice in here and there.
Aaron (11:19.83)
Right. And of course, it’s not as oversimplified as that. I’m sort of dumbing that down to some degree to make the point. But I think that…
Quentin Walston (11:25.401)
Mm-hmm. Right.
Aaron (11:37.858)
I think if there are, what I do have are certain principles that I think that I’m interested in, you know, and I’m interested in.
Quentin Walston (11:43.171)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
Aaron (11:53.036)
I’m interested in elasticity in things that stretch and snap back as opposed to floatiness. I’m interested in contrast of all sorts, tension and release, short and long, loud and soft, little and big. And surprise, know, playing with expectations.
Quentin Walston (11:55.343)
Mmm.
Quentin Walston (11:58.927)
Mmm.
Quentin Walston (12:12.847)
Yes.
Aaron (12:21.326)
like a storyteller or a comedian. So those are principles for me that are interesting when they find their way to the music. And so if I bring my attention towards…
Quentin Walston (12:22.23)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron (12:41.198)
thinking more like a storyteller or a comedian, or sometimes like a boxer, know? Where is a jab? Where’s an uppercut? How are you going to time these things? How are you going to, you know what I mean?
Quentin Walston (12:43.78)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (12:50.851)
Yeah. Yeah.
Quentin Walston (12:57.987)
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it makes it so compelling. When I first heard, I think it’s the machine say, the machine say no. And that’s just brilliant contrast because you have that kind of piano vamp and then the blazing drums just erupts out of nowhere. Yeah.
Aaron (13:08.577)
yeah.
Aaron (13:17.632)
Yeah, Jungkook is a little drum and bass freak out track.
Quentin Walston (13:23.951)
It’s incredible. And yeah, I love that idea of kind of having certain musical concepts that you want to reach or want to convey. then how am I going to do that? But yeah, tension release, those contrasts are excellent. Let me see. I remember one of when, so I guess for listeners, I first came in contact with you. I was a student at
a kind of a jazz residency, like a two week retreat, if you will, where a bunch of kind of young 20 somethings would get together and workshop their tunes and work on playing. And you were one of the clinicians that came. And that was that was amazing for me. And I remember getting to hear about part of your process. And you explained that a lot of your practicing, at least maybe at the time, would be kind of
Aaron (13:58.222)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (14:22.531)
just exploring the piano. I remember you said something like you invent a scale and then try to figure out what harmony or what chords you could make out of that scale. Do I have that right? Is that something that you were doing?
Aaron (14:34.862)
That’s one of the things that I’ve done. would hardly, I mean, there are no scales really that haven’t been invented, but it is also, you know, pretend to invent a scale. you, mean, explore it and make something up for yourself can be really valuable. And sort of rather than trying to, even if, especially if then you go back and you’re like,
Quentin Walston (14:48.323)
Hmm.
Quentin Walston (14:52.281)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron (15:03.562)
Okay, well this thing has existed. Let’s see how other people have used it before. But,
Quentin Walston (15:06.787)
Mmm. Mm-hmm.
Aaron (15:10.88)
Absolutely, that type of harmonic exploration, creating limitations for yourself and then such as, you know, the parameter, whatever the parameters of that scale might be and seeing what’s available inside of it. That can be a really…
Quentin Walston (15:16.185)
Hmm.
Quentin Walston (15:22.211)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Aaron (15:29.334)
an interesting way to spark creativity for yourself, I think. And I definitely did some of that.
Quentin Walston (15:31.693)
Hmm.
Quentin Walston (15:35.171)
I remember recent, I’m not, no, it must have been like four or five years. Anyway, at some point I thought I invented the augmented scale. I was like, whoa, look at this. What if you do that and that? And I was just so chuffed and pleased. And I was just like working out all the details. And then I’m like, man, there’s Wayne Shorter doing it. Rats.
Aaron (15:55.672)
But that’s, mean, but that, actually, think is a really, there’s something valuable about, about that when you can have that sense of discovery for yourself, rather than, and this, think is one of the things that I often miss a little bit in that more academic way of learning, which is a lot more based on
Quentin Walston (16:07.375)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (16:19.97)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron (16:25.718)
authority figures telling you here are the things you need to know in order to be good and you figuring out how to do them correctly and then somehow along the way you know but be original you know and if you can explore those very basic things as if you’re discovering them
And it’s funny you mentioned the augmented or whole tone scale. Right now, I am going through a phase. It’s funny, I was just writing a friend about this. After all, I’m just like, I feel like there’s something about augmented chords that I don’t completely understand and that there’s something there.
Quentin Walston (17:19.503)
you
Aaron (17:22.434)
that’s a key to harmony in a way that I’m starting to get a glimpse of. Because I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about diminished chords in recent years. But there is something about those whole tone scales and those four augmented triads that have another way of everything. And so, yeah, we’re getting a little bit into the weeds here, but it’s funny you mentioned that.
Quentin Walston (17:27.961)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (17:31.769)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (17:43.641)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (17:49.711)
I like the weeds at times. And I’m hoping that the listeners to this, I mean, I’d love to serve the community of just jazz fans, jazz artists and students and jazz teachers. So I’m happy to get into the weeds. I’m sure someone will benefit from it. But yeah, like for me, like those major thirds that are.
or those triads that are a third away and then you just do that sharp five, like it has this like mysterious, really like interesting sound. And yeah, just trying to like, where can I place that? And these triads can all be upper structures and since they’re augmented chords, they’re dividing the octave evenly. yeah, it’s like the diminished stuff, but just whole new world with a different characteristic. So that’s.
Aaron (18:41.76)
Exactly. It has its own physics and the way that those chords want to open outward or inward. It’s really… Yeah, and especially like rather than… Although I do love those four note patterns that you were showing, I’m thinking just the straight up augmented triad without… Not a four note thing.
Quentin Walston (18:48.675)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (19:02.647)
Mmm. Mmm.
Quentin Walston (19:08.152)
I see, yeah.
Aaron (19:08.354)
just like the CE G sharp. And just looking at that basic structure and where are all the different places that that could and might want to go. And seeing how that can function at a fundamental level and also, yes, as you say, sort of as part of the scaffolding for upper structures.
Quentin Walston (19:12.879)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (19:21.199)
That’s fascinating.
Quentin Walston (19:29.22)
Hmm.
Quentin Walston (19:32.589)
Mmm.
Aaron (19:37.78)
These are all really interesting things. what I recommend is I wish that people spent a little bit more time exploring these things in that way of like, what is going on here? Just like sort of trying to live with the question rather than look for the answer.
Quentin Walston (19:49.103)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (19:56.653)
Yeah, yeah.
Quentin Walston (20:04.491)
That’s so well put and it ties back into kind of the point earlier and about I don’t want to bash academia, but you know like the whole like are you learning your Charlie Parker solos and have you worked on your Coltrane stuff and like that that technique and transcription has a place but yeah, I think Yeah
Aaron (20:25.934)
It’s very, very valuable. And it’s a part of the process. It’s a part of the process. I think that balancing…
Quentin Walston (20:30.072)
Right.
Aaron (20:41.128)
doing the deep dive into the history. I think what I balancing to follow through with my thought, balancing doing the deep dive of that academic study of history, learning these things, transcription analysis, all of, know,
Quentin Walston (20:57.039)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron (21:00.992)
learning some of the theory, balancing that with then calling everything that you learn into question and sort of looking for the answers for yourself and ultimately not getting too attached to either of those. So you’re not bound by the rules nor are you bound in opposition to the rules.
Quentin Walston (21:03.055)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (21:18.863)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (21:26.595)
Hmm. Yeah.
Aaron (21:30.126)
actual freedom is exploring all of it and then having it all available to to play with as you choose. And so what I do want to say
Quentin Walston (21:38.357)
Alright.
Aaron (21:49.356)
that I think is really important.
Quentin Walston (21:51.631)
Hmm.
Aaron (21:54.614)
that I don’t know gets stressed enough is the importance of listening to music. And I know that’s a very simple thing to say, but listening to a piece of music over and over again until it becomes a part of you, not only listening in sort of an extractive sense of I’m going to listen to this and transcribe it.
Quentin Walston (22:03.107)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (22:15.673)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (22:20.065)
Mm hmm. Yeah.
Aaron (22:23.938)
And then I’m going to have something useful. can, you know, I’ve got, I’ve got my Charlie Parker now. I’m going to move on to the next thing that I can take something from. the, I think the goal, at least for me, what, and all of this is just my taste. There’s, know, everybody’s got their own approach to it, but for what I’m interested in, I’m trying to cultivate, I don’t want to be, I don’t want to be a master of music. I want to be somebody who
Quentin Walston (22:29.7)
There you go.
Mmm.
Quentin Walston (22:38.681)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (22:44.931)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (22:51.054)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron (22:53.442)
has a sense of closeness with music and have some degree of mastery over the conditions within myself to let music arise.
Quentin Walston (22:55.501)
Mmm. Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (23:02.946)
Yeah.
I love that. And I feel too, when you spend that deep dive, it helps you create your own identity too. Cause if you’re really spending time with an album, you’re spending time in developing the things that matter for you. Like I think one of the very first albums that I got obsessed with and just listened to again and again and again and again was Blues in the Abstract Truth by Oliver Nelson. And just like,
Aaron (23:23.502)
That’s right.
Aaron (23:32.546)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Quentin Walston (23:35.107)
The way his solos were so, they were, it’s like they were composed. They were simple, but they were thematic and he just floated over the changes and they just, they were enigmatic to me. It just completely captured my imagination. And yeah, doing something like that, I can totally see how that would have so much more value over the development than just, okay, I listened to my Clifford Brown and now I’m gonna listen to my Sonny Rollins and I’m gonna listen to, I can just going through a check.
Aaron (24:03.15)
It’s very easy to sort of, especially with the entire history of recorded music at our fingertips, it’s easy to feel like we need to listen to everything and we’ve got to check these boxes. And of course it can be useful to sort of do an overview, the thing that like allowing ourselves to be honest with ourselves about, hey, what is catching my ear right now? What do I like? What do I, what do, and letting,
Quentin Walston (24:08.943)
Yeah
Quentin Walston (24:16.303)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (24:20.718)
Mm.
Quentin Walston (24:28.399)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Aaron (24:32.814)
like almost by a sense of smell. That smell, right now, this is what I’m interested in. And I’m gonna follow this pretty intensely for a while. It’s interesting, that record, Blues in the Abstract Truth, was about, that’s one of those records, there’s so many of those records that almost everybody listens to early on. And then,
Quentin Walston (24:35.511)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (24:41.273)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (24:45.7)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (25:00.237)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron (25:02.998)
and you think you’ve got an idea of what it is. And then I went back to that record in particular a couple of years ago and I was just really struck again just how hip the tunes and the arrangements are. especially from, and Eric Dolphy, Eric Dolphy on that record is coming out with some moves that nobody sees coming.
Quentin Walston (25:06.232)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (25:19.844)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (25:23.929)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (25:31.755)
No.
Aaron (25:31.808)
like some, yeah, the abstract truth indeed.
Quentin Walston (25:35.299)
Like the contrast. Like you’re talking about contrast. mean, like, yeah, you’ll get someone finishes like Oliver Nelson will finish his solo or whatever. And then, yeah, here comes Eric Dolphy. Like those big, like just jumping out.
Aaron (25:50.988)
with those angular, angular gestures. And that’s one of the things that I think is very valuable to listen to in music that sometimes we’ve, that I sometimes forget, but that I try to remember more and more is just really paying attention to the gesture more than the notes necessarily.
Quentin Walston (25:54.745)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (26:15.567)
Can you elaborate on that?
Aaron (26:20.042)
What’s, what is the shape? What is the shape of the idea? What is, like thinking kind of visually, is it like, is it, you know, is it something that like,
Quentin Walston (26:24.047)
Mmm.
Quentin Walston (26:30.863)
you
Quentin Walston (26:34.361)
Yeah, yeah.
Aaron (26:39.426)
lands kind of flat-footed, or is it something that kind of swoops in and touches down gently, or maybe just misses, like sort of artfully skids past what, or sort of artlessly skids past, you know? All of these different ways of, I don’t know, gesture for me is something that I’m really fascinated with.
Quentin Walston (26:53.347)
Yeah, I like that.
Quentin Walston (27:06.095)
That’s really interesting. It’s kind of like a macro, or I don’t want to say macro analysis, but it’s a way of analyzing without having to get lost in the actual transcription or something.
Aaron (27:17.165)
It’s a way to, because a lot of the time with all of the book learning, which of course has value, I’m not dismissing the value of it, it’s I would say a bit overemphasized. It’s a bit overemphasized to the point that it can be paralyzing for many musicians where
Quentin Walston (27:25.476)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (27:36.493)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (27:43.183)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron (27:44.352)
Their mind is so filled with ideas of right and wrong.
Quentin Walston (27:48.27)
Right.
Aaron (27:49.962)
that you can’t even begin to like, sort of even start something without sort of having the little judgmental creatures start popping up and telling you, you’re doing it, you’re doing it bad. yeah, you’re doing it great. You know, and all of that is incorrect really. Like.
Quentin Walston (28:01.241)
Mmm.
Quentin Walston (28:08.025)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (28:14.543)
Absolutely, yeah. I remember I was at that same residency that I was telling you about and someone was taking a bass solo and my jazz major brain was like, okay, bass solo, let me go to the high part of the piano. And the guy stopped me and he’s like, what are you doing? That’s where I’m playing. Go somewhere else. And I was like, I never realized I can go somewhere else. I thought I had to just move up.
Aaron (28:40.226)
Of course, yeah, that’s what, and there’s all sorts of strange ideas that piano players often have or get taught about comping. And yeah, and that was, mean, learning how to comp for bass solos is something that I’ve only started to get good at in my, you know, mid thirties to early forties, where I am now. And really understanding, after actually talking to bass players,
You know, like, hey, what would you, what do you like? And it’s actually pretty simple in many ways. It’s like they’ve been holding things down for the rest of the band.
Aaron (29:24.044)
They don’t need a whole lot of rhythm from the piano. They don’t need a lot of interaction. People’s ears already have a hard enough time, like the general public, can have a hard time paying attention to a bass solo, like in general. If you start doing all sorts of fiddly piano stuff, they don’t stand a chance. You give them some support, just like a chorale.
Quentin Walston (29:40.249)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (29:53.219)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron (29:54.188)
You know, play nice sounding voicings that help to create a sense of place harmonically that lets them dance and lets them, and then the bass player then can play with the drums. It’s almost like the piano player and drummer, when it comes to bass solos, often get things confused between the two of them, where the drummers start getting really, really simple.
Quentin Walston (30:00.675)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (30:04.559)
Mmm.
Quentin Walston (30:09.461)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Quentin Walston (30:17.923)
Mm.
Aaron (30:22.294)
and like playing on just the hi-hat and sort of giving no energy to the bass solo. And the piano player is sort of like either playing way up high or is trying to interact. And it’s like, okay, this is our chance to chill out and get into a service position here. And for bass and drums to get into something.
Quentin Walston (30:34.329)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (30:44.047)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (30:49.636)
Yeah.
Aaron (30:51.34)
I mean, that’s one recipe anyways.
Quentin Walston (30:54.243)
Yeah, I like that. And I want to kind of continue, not specifically on the bassos, but on that concept of, I don’t want to say piano misconceptions, but maybe kind of the templates that pianists use and ways that more modern pianists are changing that. And I’m sure this will be helpful for piano players that are listening or people that are just curious. But.
I see a trend with modern pianists moving away from just the traditional model of I’m going to play a rootless chord in my left hand and I’m going to play some bebop or post-bop language in my right hand. And obviously modern pianists will fluctuate and they’ll flow based on what the music calls for.
But I feel like that’s the primary way that piano was taught. And that’s how I was taught too. Like, okay, do your Bill Evans rootless voicing with the third or the seventh on the bottom, so on and so forth.
Aaron (31:56.656)
That’s definitely how it was taught, but this is one of those funny things. This is why I draw a little bit of attention to the academia, because that’s not what it sounds like on most of the records. Like, actually, that’s not what the piano players are usually doing. And certainly not before Bill Evans.
Quentin Walston (32:04.974)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (32:12.644)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron (32:16.492)
And there’s a whole history of piano before Bill Evans, you know? Bud Powell’s, yeah, exactly, Horace Silver. I mean, it’s… And then what I also think is that we get taught this idea of rootless voicings. And a lot of this, you know, it’s not me, like, I don’t want to be old man. You guys are doing it wrong.
Quentin Walston (32:16.74)
Yes.
Quentin Walston (32:20.621)
Yeah. Like, Bud Powell, he’s throwing and like, yeah.
Aaron (32:46.176)
It’s also like, it’s me looking at myself, knowing my own habits and being like, damn, I’ve got to deprogram myself a little bit as well. Somewhere along the way, I remember being told that like, it’s the left hand is all about upbeats. The whole, you got to play a bunch of upbeats in the red garland style. And I notice…
Quentin Walston (32:50.179)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.
Quentin Walston (33:03.935)
Mmm, garland kind of thing. Yeah
Aaron (33:13.748)
When I noticed there were periods, earlier on in my career, and when I’m not careful, or if I’m sort of getting a little unfocused, it’s easy for the left hand to get into a sort of herky-jerky responsive mode, but not really providing a grounding to the rhythm and having things that relate to beat one more often, and that actually live some of the time, yes, in the lower register rather than just the
Quentin Walston (33:28.611)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Aaron (33:43.886)
So many of these things that I remember being taught or hearing from one way or another, it’s like, yeah, rootless voicings, lots of upbeats. It’s like, well, that’s a way that some people do it, but that’s not the way to do it. And yeah, what I start hearing, it’s hard for me to even like make the distinction between modern and
Quentin Walston (33:48.153)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (33:55.887)
Yeah, yeah
Aaron (34:12.85)
old. I don’t even know. That’s all a little bit unclear for me these days. But I noticed that a lot of the people that I like, that I’m drawn to, have a way of
Quentin Walston (34:17.123)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (34:23.896)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron (34:30.464)
integrating both hands in a way that feels like there’s a lot of play with density. Sullivan Fortner, of course, comes to mind as somebody who’s a master of this.
Quentin Walston (34:32.515)
Yes.
Quentin Walston (34:38.031)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (34:44.941)
Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron (34:50.836)
you thinking harmonically and weaving in his like letting those single note lines always existing in relation to a grip on the harmony, a tactile in a way that’s very, you know, it doesn’t sound anything like block chords, for example. You know, it’s not that
Quentin Walston (35:01.753)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (35:07.171)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Quentin Walston (35:16.141)
No, it’s yeah, it’s contrapuntal almost.
Aaron (35:21.836)
It’s contrapuntal, but it’s not like two-voice contrapuntal. I think that it’s its own distinct thing from… There’s so many different approaches and Brad definitely was doing a lot for the sort of that two-voiced and Fred Hirsch, they both were doing a lot with the of the two distinct voices.
Quentin Walston (35:28.281)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (35:44.367)
Yeah.
Aaron (35:51.458)
that you’re kind of paying attention to and the way that they move with each other.
Quentin Walston (35:56.174)
Yeah.
Aaron (36:02.861)
I’m interested in all of it and all of them are interesting recipes and interesting things to try to inquire into and see how they fit into your own particular, yeah, what smells good to you, you know?
Quentin Walston (36:13.412)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (36:17.603)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It’s getting those hands talking to one another. I remember I would I messaged Jason Moran out of the blue, of like seeing if I was being maybe a little a little brave or maybe just diluted, but I was like, hey, can you listen to this and give me some feedback? And he was basically saying like, yeah, your hands need to talk to one another. Like your left hand’s on autopilot and your right hand’s and
And I think when you talk about what smells good and what you’re drawn to, think that that’s that modern sound that I’m drawn to personally. I like that about your playing the hands talk to one another or maybe even the one hand starts a line and the other hand takes it over or whatever it is. Brad obviously does that Sullivan Fortner, you mentioned Fred Hirsch, Jason Moran. It’s
Aaron (37:09.912)
Jason’s, yeah, Jason’s incredible. And Jason, the older I get, and also perhaps the older Jason gets,
I’m just coming to appreciate Jason more and more and more. His left hand is something to behold. Not because of its technical virtuosity or independence or anything like that, although that’s there, but because of its authority and the way that it reaches down and touches the ground.
Quentin Walston (37:31.373)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (37:42.243)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (37:50.707)
yeah.
Aaron (37:52.11)
There’s an understanding of resonance and an understanding of groundedness in Jason’s left hand, which I’m fascinated by and is sort of in line with a lot of the things that I’m finding myself drawn to as a listener these days as well.
Quentin Walston (37:58.127)
Mmm.
Quentin Walston (38:10.743)
Mm-hmm. That’s fascinating. Let me see. let’s see. I have some other things. Let me ask some questions that might be helpful for teachers. so not all listeners might know this. You started music college at a young age, I believe. And then you also started touring as a sideman while you were still in college. so.
With that unique experience, I know a little bit of the theme today has been talking about academia. And again, I don’t want to bash academia. I was able to hone my sound through it and I teach a lot myself. But were there any specific things that when you were experiencing jazz as a touring artist while simultaneously in school, you wish that could be a greater part or like, hey, this is being
This is being completely missed. guess an analogy could be like, I remember in high school, all my friends were like, why are we in AP Biology? I wish someone would teach us how to do our taxes.
Aaron (39:21.23)
Sure. Well, I mean, I think.
It’s hard for me to, yeah, to be clear, don’t think that I have so much a problem with, I don’t have a problem with teaching, to be clear. I do think that, I do think the way that we teach things and the way that we talk about things matters. And when things are talked about in terms of correct and incorrect,
Quentin Walston (39:40.42)
Yeah
Quentin Walston (39:49.647)
Mmm.
Quentin Walston (39:57.743)
Hmm.
Aaron (39:59.906)
And sort of like this, like you got to get this together. know, like it’s hard for me to put my finger on it because on the one hand there is an element of that which is true, right? But we overemphasize that I think to a lot. And I do think that sometimes particularly
the model in a lot of in America, maybe the Western world in general, but especially America, which has an emphasis on, you know, results oriented learning. Like, can you demonstrate that you’ve learned something at the end of this course? You know, I need you to be able to have something which is testable. Right. And and if it’s not testable,
Quentin Walston (40:46.314)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Right. Right.
Quentin Walston (40:55.383)
Mm-hmm. I feel that, yeah.
Aaron (41:01.582)
then have you really learned anything? Yeah, because like, you you need to give a grade, blah, blah, blah. And I think that music…
Quentin Walston (41:08.045)
Right. Right.
Aaron (41:15.02)
in its, I don’t think that that’s really the way to learn it. That just doesn’t make a lot of sense for it. I think the way to be learning music is for teachers to be a little bit, and this isn’t, course, you know, I’m making blanket statements which are not true, but I do.
I do think that there is often, teachers have it rough a lot of the time. It’s not like it’s a great gig and there’s a lot of paperwork to do and all these administrative functions. And it’s easy to sort of like, okay, well, let me make this, here’s my one size fits all approach. Here’s what you all need to know. And what you end up with with that approach is sometimes a
Quentin Walston (41:49.039)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (41:57.709)
Right.
Quentin Walston (42:01.007)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron (42:09.314)
bunch of people who have learned or are at various stages at learning the same skill set without necessarily having asked themselves the question of why.
Quentin Walston (42:17.955)
Mmm.
Quentin Walston (42:22.615)
Yes, yeah. And that, yeah, sorry.
Aaron (42:24.206)
Yeah, and so having a little bit more emphasis on questions again, rather than answers. If teachers weren’t like, here’s the thing to do, but we’re like, hey, what if? you make something for yourself? Create some parameter, like create a limitation for yourself.
Quentin Walston (42:37.177)
Hmm.
Quentin Walston (42:45.348)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Aaron (42:53.912)
giving the students something that makes them feel like they have some more skin in the game rather than it’s a thing to cross your T’s and dot your I’s. Well, I did it right. Why don’t I sound good? Right?
Quentin Walston (42:59.203)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (43:05.805)
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I learned autumn leaves and all 12 keys. Where are my gigs? That’s great. Yeah. And I think that ties into what you were saying too about, you mentioned asking questions, why the exploring aspect of music, just go explore, go.
Aaron (43:13.706)
Exactly, you know, where are my gigs?
Quentin Walston (43:34.413)
Like that type of creativity, I absolutely love that and applaud that, I think.
Aaron (43:38.734)
There’s one more thing that I think is important to mention. This is something that I heard from Ben Street, the great bassist and one of the greatest teachers that I know. He said, we were teaching in a class recently and he said something which is like, forget about styles. There is no such thing as bebop.
Quentin Walston (43:47.266)
you
Thanks.
Quentin Walston (44:04.579)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Aaron (44:08.472)
Forget about learning styles. Learn people.
Quentin Walston (44:13.775)
Ooh. Yeah.
Aaron (44:15.33)
Find the individual, find the people who have something that you’re interested in. Don’t learn how to play bebop piano, right? Fall in love with say, Bud Powell, right? Not the abstract idea of bebop piano. Or if you like, know, if you are,
Quentin Walston (44:22.063)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Quentin Walston (44:30.787)
Yeah. Yeah.
Aaron (44:41.942)
If you want like, like, okay, maybe it’s Barry Harris as the piano player as well. Like, let’s go listen to a bunch of Barry Harris, see how we feel about that.
Quentin Walston (44:51.373)
Yeah. And I feel like that touches so much on the concept of jazz as a language. Because it’s like if you learn just bebop, it’d be like learning to speak out of a dictionary or a vocabulary book versus learning. Yeah. That, yeah. I.
Aaron (45:07.35)
Exactly. That’s right. That’s exactly right. And so you can try to find the people that you love and just feel like you’re spending time with them on the records. if you’re the kind of person who likes reading biographies and getting to know as much about their life as you can, that’s an interesting way to do things. I haven’t done a lot of that myself. I think I’d like to do more.
Quentin Walston (45:18.201)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (45:31.587)
me.
Aaron (45:34.774)
I think I’m probably going to try to find out more about the guy that I’m obsessed with. I can’t get enough Mal Waldron right now. And Mal, no, and I’ve been trying to put my finger on what is going on. I can’t put my finger on it, but there’s something there that is
Quentin Walston (45:47.375)
yeah, I haven’t done a deep dive in.
Aaron (46:03.826)
just, it’s no bullshit. It’s no bullshit and it’s very clear and the development, it’s just, there’s something about it which is,
Quentin Walston (46:08.367)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Aaron (46:25.279)
It’s plain spoken, but with like that grounded authority.
Quentin Walston (46:30.713)
like very intentional playing kind of.
Aaron (46:32.866)
very intentional and very mysterious, very mysterious at the same time. In a way that, I’m listening to a whole bunch of Mao right now.
Quentin Walston (46:36.431)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (46:46.233)
Hmm. That’s interesting. I have to do a deeper dive onto him. I feel that way sometimes about, forgive me because I haven’t done a deep dive on him, but some of the stuff I’ve heard from Paul Blay, specifically like when he does trio stuff and when he explores standards. Like for instance, on your volume one, when you do all the things you are, and then on volume two, you do body and soul. Like I love that because it’s…
Aaron (46:59.895)
Right.
Aaron (47:10.498)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (47:14.819)
rooted in the tradition, yet you step out, but it’s not playing out for out’s sake. Like it has this wonderful organicness to it. And I’ll sometimes hear that in Paul’s play. Yeah, absolutely.
Aaron (47:25.37)
thanks. Well, for sure. mean, Paul is a huge, huge influence for me. And in some ways, it feels on the surface level, you might, they almost seem diametrically opposed because Paul’s thing goes so far into sometimes like flights of fancy and abstraction.
Quentin Walston (47:32.087)
Mmm.
Quentin Walston (47:46.382)
Mmm.
Quentin Walston (47:54.915)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Aaron (47:55.564)
You know, he just follows, he’s really like following his nose. You listen to that classic solo of his on All the Things You Are, from Coleman, the Sonny Rollins, Sonny Meats Hawk with Coleman Hawkins. And I remember the first time I heard that, it just turned my world inside out. I’m like, you can do that? I didn’t know that was allowed. And so it might seem…
Quentin Walston (48:00.793)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (48:04.461)
Yes, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Quentin Walston (48:17.881)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Aaron (48:23.406)
I mean, and it is a very different world from now. And both of them have that same sense of…
I don’t know, like gravity. and that’s something that is, I can’t put my finger on, but it’s something that I’m interested in, that I’m trying to prioritize and deepen.
Quentin Walston (48:38.891)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (48:59.715)
I love that. I’m trying to think if there’s, so we got Paul Bley, Mal Waldron. Are there any other jazz influences that either you’re currently listening to, currently listening to, or people that you would attribute as key in your development?
Aaron (49:19.022)
Well, there, I mean, it’s a whole list of, you know, folks that I went through periods of obsession with, you know? I think my first love was Gene Harris. I fell in love with Gene Harris when I was first starting out with the Ray Brown Trio. And then, I think, you know, just keep doing my little chronological thing for a second. Like, I can give you the really early ones, which were like,
Quentin Walston (49:26.819)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (49:38.499)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron (49:48.842)
Gene Harris, and then the piano players from the Ray Brown Trio. So it was Benny Green and Jeff Keizer. Because it was basically like Ray Brown Trio was my gateway drug. so, and then McCoy, Herbie, the first live jazz show that I ever saw was Keith, actually, which was a crazy thing to be the first live show. And so that set me off on, you know,
Quentin Walston (50:00.825)
There you go.
Quentin Walston (50:06.703)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (50:16.686)
Yeah.
Aaron (50:18.03)
Keith, huge influence. Chick in an early, you although I haven’t listened as much in recent years, but it might be due for me to go back and check in again. Brad, of course, especially like in that era of Art of the Trio, volume three and volume four, super influential to me. Gonzalo Rubalcaba.
Quentin Walston (50:19.972)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (50:29.219)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (50:40.569)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm.
Aaron (50:48.064)
very important for me. That record, Inner Voyage, really deeply informed my aesthetics of touch and also of what I was talking about, elasticity. That sense of when do things stretch out, when do they arrive right on time, when do they get delayed. Danilo Perez, huge for me.
Quentin Walston (50:49.401)
Mmm. Mmm.
Quentin Walston (51:05.572)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (51:13.475)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (51:17.263)
Mmm.
Aaron (51:17.484)
Danilo, I used to see his trio all the time in New York with Ben Street and Adam Cruz and the adventurousness of that band and the groundedness. I don’t know if you know there’s the live record live at the Jazz Showcase. It’s not on streaming. It was like it’s, it might be, I hope that they get it on streaming at some point. I was talking to Danilo about it because it captures that band.
Quentin Walston (51:21.134)
Mmm.
Quentin Walston (51:29.762)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (51:35.855)
Okay.
Aaron (51:47.978)
in all of their power and whimsy that they have live. But there’s also the record Till Then, which they, that trio is on part of it. I mean, yeah, as you can see, I can go on and on and on. Shirley Horn. Shirley Horn for me is huge as well for sound, for how to play on a ballad, voicings.
Quentin Walston (51:52.526)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (52:01.347)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Quentin Walston (52:13.209)
Mm-hmm.
Aaron (52:17.134)
timing, sense of space, of place. Then Rand Blake comes into the picture for creating mood, place. Bill Evans also for that, as well as the…
Quentin Walston (52:31.823)
Mmm.
Aaron (52:38.548)
just the tactile grippiness in his thing. mean, like, there’s a…
Quentin Walston (52:41.219)
Yeah.
Aaron (52:48.674)
Yeah, there’s a lot. I Ahmad Jamal, come on. It’s stupid. There’s so many people. And Jerry Allen, who I’m only still scratching the surface of. I spent some time with her music a few years ago, like really doing a bit more of you know, after she passed. And I was like, man, what was I, I kind of missed the boat on this.
Quentin Walston (52:50.041)
Yeah. Like a timeline.
Quentin Walston (52:56.91)
and
Yes.
Quentin Walston (53:16.121)
She’s like a synthesis of like early Herbie and Chick and McCoy. Like it’s just this beautiful, like taking all these kind of diasporate 70s and 80s approaches and just like, boom, just so clean and so creative. I love Jerry.
Aaron (53:35.992)
Yeah, I can’t, I don’t know that I can name exactly what it is. There’s just something mysterious. That solo piano record of hers, that’s a homegrown. That one, wow. That’s one that, mean, yeah, again, gravity and the earth. It’s all there too.
Quentin Walston (53:43.083)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (53:59.759)
I really really- oh, come on.
Aaron (54:00.152)
man, Duke, Duke Ellington on piano. Man, that’s, so that’s the thing that piano, like piano reflections.
Quentin Walston (54:09.967)
piano reflection. I’m so glad you brought that up. I feel like everyone’s sleeping on Duke’s piano play, like Money Jungle and piano reflections. Like just his approach is different than anyone else.
Aaron (55:33.351)
I mean, and that’s what Monk said, right? That he, you know, he was just basically trying to play like Duke.
his doing his version of Duke. I don’t know if that’s exactly how he said it. You know, here I go like, that’s what he said. I don’t know.
Quentin Walston (55:53.005)
Yeah. Yeah.
Quentin Walston (56:02.131)
I’m going to quote you on that. Aaron Parks is saying, no, I’m kidding. Well, that’s great. I really appreciate you taking the time, taking the hour to do this. It was awesome diving into all this stuff. I want to make sure we plug and talk about any websites, upcoming projects you have. Is there anything that you want to share that we can link to?
Aaron (56:05.671)
Yeah.
Aaron (56:26.159)
I don’t know,
Not too much in particular. think that I’ve got the record out with my band Little Big. I’m excited about it. I really love that record. I also really love the acoustic quartet record that’s coming out in the autumn. yeah, feel very excited to be playing some more swinging music again.
Quentin Walston (56:41.604)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (56:55.119)
Mmm. Yeah.
Aaron (56:57.219)
It’s something that I’ve never, that is a really, really valuable and important part of my practice and that I just, that I care about a lot, but it hasn’t been that much recorded for quite a while. And, and, and, it’s something that I, I’m feeling that call and I’m, yeah.
Quentin Walston (57:06.031)
Mm-hmm.
Quentin Walston (57:12.719)
Hmm.
Quentin Walston (57:20.111)
That’s awesome. I think, not to put my taste too much, I’m a big fan of swing, and particularly swing being made in the 21st century. Because the language has evolved so much. I’m really excited to hear that project when it comes out.
Aaron (57:31.015)
Yeah.
Aaron (57:34.951)
Yeah.
Aaron (57:42.269)
Yeah, thanks. I’m very excited. Billy Hart is on drums and he is playing… I mean, it’s really just astonishing what he’s playing. It’s not like, oh yeah, well he’s a legend. He’s playing great because he’s a legend. No, he’s playing… It’s sick what he is playing on this record.
Quentin Walston (58:06.031)
man, autumn, all right. I’ll be looking out for that. Awesome, well thanks again, Aaron. I really appreciate it. Have an awesome rest of your day. yeah, absolutely.
Aaron (58:10.011)
Yeah.
Aaron (58:18.333)
Thanks, Quentin.
Thanks a lot. You too. You too, bye-bye.