In this exclusive This Is Jazz interview, jazz drummer Ari Hoenig discusses his latest album ‘Tea for Three’, the creative process behind it, and the evolution of jazz drumming. He shares insights on composition, the importance of learning songs, and offers advice for aspiring musicians navigating the jazz scene. Hoenig emphasizes the significance of inspiration in music and the development of a personal style.
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Interview Transcript
Quentin Walston (00:00)
we’ve got Ari Hoenig, jazz drummer, band leader, recording artist, touring artist, extraordinaire. We’re super excited to talk to you today. So thank you for talking on and coming on. Excellent.
Ari (00:00)
Let’s talk about jazz.
Yeah, Quentin, sure, Sure, yeah, happy to be here.
Quentin Walston (00:15)
one I saw you’re crazy busy. You’re going to be in like Germany and stuff soon.
Ari (00:20)
Yeah, I guess I think so. Yeah, I think I will be. Yeah, March.
Quentin Walston (00:24)
That’s awesome. Cool. Congrats.
That’s amazing. One of the things that I like to do in these interviews is kind of go over kind of three different audiences that we can dive into. talk about jazz just for general music fans. I like to talk about jazz for jazz artists so they can learn how to grow in their music or in their career. And then also I like to talk in ways that can help teachers.
because I really want to encourage jazz in the classroom or in one-on-one lessons. So in our half hour, I’m hoping to get to all of those. But let’s start with just general jazz fans. I’ve been really digging your new album, T for Three. That is just so cool. It’s been blowing my mind. What was the, I mean, I guess you’ve been playing with those guys for a little while, but what was the process of, I guess, crafting that album and picking what tunes would go on it?
Ari (01:22)
You know, it’s pretty practical and straightforward. It’s not like there’s, you know, you’re choosing, you know, 10 words from a dictionary. It’s like whatever songs that I wrote recently and we’ve been playing and, you know, we’ve developed over whatever the last couple years of gigging, you know, goes on the record or as least it’s recorded so that it has a chance to get on the record.
The last record I did with that trio, think I had probably three or four songs that we recorded that I didn’t put on it. And so we re-recorded those and those songs went on this one. So it’s kind of, yeah.
Quentin Walston (02:05)
Nice.
Very cool. Yeah, I was…
Ari (02:10)
Unfortunately, the magic
kind of disappear. You know, it’s like, oh no, they thought that you were like crafting every single song. But you know, the narrative kind of can like, can kind of like make things come together, you know? That’s one thing that you kind of, for me, cause my history is, you I’m in the generation where we made records, you know? And so I made a lot of records at this point. I don’t know, maybe over a dozen. And so like,
Quentin Walston (02:13)
No.
Thank
Yeah.
Ari (02:38)
The process is always pretty much the same, but then there’s this part that it’s like, well, how do I make this into, mean, besides of having one band and recording all the music with the same band, right? How do I make a narrative? How do I make a story out of these group of songs? And…
Quentin Walston (02:55)
Yeah.
Ari (02:57)
So that’s the, that was the funny one. And this one actually had another couple of names before T for Three that I was really considering. And, you know, that would have changed the cover and changed, you know, if you think, it wouldn’t have changed the music though.
Quentin Walston (03:07)
Okay.
Right.
Okay,
yeah, well that’s interesting. was like, so obviously T for Two is on the record and that’s almost like hinting that that’s the title track. So since you were juggling around other names, I guess T for Two isn’t really the title track. It’s just one of the collection maybe.
Ari (03:31)
Well,
I guess you could call it the title track because of the name, but not the name because of the title track. know, it’s interesting how things actually work, you know, I mean, I’m happy with all the songs on there. I’m proud of them, so I put them on the record. So there’s no song that can’t be a title track. T for three worked pretty well because of, you know, what we had at the time. I was planning on doing like a photo shoot, you know, for the record of the trio. That never really happened. So because of that,
Quentin Walston (03:36)
Yeah.
That’s a point, yeah.
Hmm.
Ari (03:57)
We were a little more limited in some things as well, you know. I’m gonna tell you something, this was gonna be on the cover. This was gonna be the cover of the T for Three record.
Quentin Walston (04:01)
Nice
man, nice. I love that. Is that a- yeah.
Ari (04:11)
Yeah.
It’s great. The
only problem with it didn’t go with any of my songs.
It went with none of my songs. I mean, it was like, well, where do you get a dog in a weird colorful hat? Well, then I started thinking about like, okay, can I rename a song and then like tell a story about it? It just didn’t really work. And then the T for three was cool or T or maybe having a photo of the guys in a tea shop with the picture of the dog in the back, but I couldn’t tie it together. It just didn’t make any sense.
Quentin Walston (04:47)
It sounds like you’re gonna have to write an entire album for that picture.
Ari (04:51)
This is the same thing I go through when
I’m composing songs, by the way, too. It’s like, well, I have this kind of cool thing and this kind of cool thing and I don’t know. Doesn’t really make sense together. Are they gonna be two songs or three songs or, you know, anyway.
Quentin Walston (05:03)
That’s awesome.
When you compose, are you composing at the piano a lot or do you kind of start with a rhythmic idea in your head or what is that process like for you? Okay, cool.
Ari (05:13)
I compose at the piano, yeah.
It doesn’t mean that I don’t compose with a rhythmic idea first though. Sometimes I do, sometimes I compose with a harmony first or a bassline first. It really depends.
Quentin Walston (05:20)
Mm-hmm.
Gotcha.
Yeah, it depends on the tune. I remember I’ve had students that really needed to get to the bottom of it. Do you compose with a melody first or a chord progression first? And it’s like, it’s not always the exact same formula. So.
Ari (05:39)
Yeah, the melody
first is very rare for me, but that’s just me personally.
Quentin Walston (05:44)
Yeah, yeah, awesome. I wanted to talk about your playing specifically. To me, there’s, I was trying to think of a word and I think either somewhere in between nuance and precision. Because like you have, you’re always on the time and you’re so precise and in my ears it lets you say so much because there’s this beautiful balance where you’re having such a
like a conversation, there’s such communicative playing, but it never feels like overplaying. So I was trying to kind of tease apart why it never sounds like that because I mean, I’m a jazz pianist and everyone has different preferences on how busy they want their drummer, but I feel like you’re never overplaying. And I was trying to think, is it because you have
such precision like you’re in the groove you’re always in the pocket or is it because you you have such dynamic control but is there a way that you intentionally kind of crafted your ability to say so much while never stepping on anyone’s toes?
Ari (06:54)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, first, the first thing that I do is see, you lead a band and then nobody tells you you’re talking too much. That’s the key, right? And so then you can lead a band and drink a bottle of wine and still nobody tells you that you’re talking too much, right? So, you know, that’s pretty much my approach, you know, lead a band, drink a couple bottles of wine.
Quentin Walston (07:03)
going.
Ari (07:15)
play, play, play, play, play, play, play. Hey, am I playing too much? No, no, man, it’s cool. It’s beautiful. know, music is good. Yeah. Okay. You sure? Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, it’s, you know, it’s a conversation. It’s a, that’s, that’s how I feel about it. And, you I mean, I think overplay underplay, it’s, it’s just about what you, you know, your personality in general, you know, if my personality comes out,
Quentin Walston (07:18)
That’s great.
Ari (07:45)
when I’m playing the drums, when I’m playing in a band, then that’s what I can ask for. And sometimes I can be a little more talkative and sometimes maybe I listen and I’m interested in what other people are saying. But again, when it’s your band, you’re gonna talk more.
Quentin Walston (08:00)
There you go, yeah, yeah. I mean, I think too, just from like an engineering standpoint, the mix, and I was listening to a bunch of your records leading up to this, the mix is always really nice too, where you can really clearly hear what you’re saying too. So I think you’ve found good people also that can bring that detail out. With the, I guess the progression of jazz drumming, and this we’ll probably touch on when we talk about how teachers or artists should approach
Ari (08:20)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (08:30)
As a whole, when you listen to jazz drumming develop, like specifically comping, I feel like the farther back in history you go, the less conversation there is. Like if it’s Papa Joe Jones, seems to, or Philly Joe Jones, it seems to be more timekeeping and there might be some subtlety with the snare, but then as time kind of evolves, the drums become more talkative. you, do
See that happening as well.
Ari (09:03)
I have noticed that, and I think that partially that is due to kind of what is kind of in style, what is hip at the time. But I think that actually a lot of it also comes from, and I think it’s maybe the thing that we haven’t really necessarily thought about is that the language is developing over time. Like for example,
Quentin Walston (09:12)
Mm.
Ari (09:26)
you know, all the languages that we humans have created on earth, right, which is many, many different, different languages. I don’t know how many, but, you know, think about how many years they took to develop. And there was a point where those languages were.
there was only, you know, 10 words or 100 words, right? So the vocabulary is developing and music, I mean, it’s can’t hold a candle to written or spoken language yet, but it could potentially, right? So you could actually come out there and play music with a group and have it and communicate in the same way that we do when we speak. The potential is there. I’m not saying it’s there or anywhere close to me. won’t be there in my lifetime, but it could be there. So the language
Quentin Walston (09:45)
Yeah.
Mm.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Ari (10:12)
of this music, we can call it jazz or improvisational music, the way that we communicate with each other with harmony and rhythm and are able to understand what we hear quickly and respond in an intelligent way the same way that we do when we speak and have a conversation, right? That is getting…
It’s getting more sophisticated over time. And so that’s, I think, part of the reason that that’s able to happen as well. I think before, when you’re talking about jazz music, you hear modern jazz quartet or…
Quentin Walston (10:33)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Ari (10:50)
or
even earlier stuff, was, yeah, was thought of as more of a classical, like we’re gonna perform this from beginning to end and then it’s gonna be over. It’s not exactly like, let’s see how we feel.
Quentin Walston (10:59)
Right.
That’s a really good point. I love that idea, the evolution. And I think that also ties into, if you look at a macro approach to the vocabulary evolving, when I listen to your playing and other modern jazz drummers, obviously it’s beyond just four-four swing. Or even if you’re staying in four, you will…
move into these different grooves and is constantly evolving, whether it’s influenced by rock or hip hop or Latin or a million other drum beats that I don’t know the name of. For a drummer today, like how important is it for them to just…
start in their swing roots and get really good at swing? Or do you think they have a job to learn a bunch of different grooves equally and start to be adept at each one of them at like the same level kind of thing?
Ari (12:02)
There’s no
real one way to do it. mean there’s there’s not even a best way. I think that you know we
we can go about, for me, there’s a lot of different, let’s say there’s different aspects of music or drums that I wanna be able to get better at, right? And sometimes I pay attention to one and I’m interested in it and I develop it and I pursue it and then I leave the other ones and then sometimes I take the other ones and I pursue those and sometimes I just never ever take one that I like and two. mean, there’s so many angles. There’s no one formula and there shouldn’t be. It’d be very boring if everybody
Quentin Walston (12:17)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Hmm.
Ari (12:40)
same thing. So I mean, there’s everybody should just go the direction that they feel inspired by and feel pulled by. There’s there’s not there shouldn’t be a right and wrong, you know, do I learn to read music? Well, how much just, you know, it doesn’t matter. Like none of that stuff really matters. It’s just that what you’re what you feel drawn to, that’s the way you got what you got to go to, you know, what you what you feel.
Quentin Walston (12:42)
That’s a good point. Yeah.
Mmm.
Yeah
Ari (13:06)
course there are fundamentals in the instruments, when you’re talking about the instruments, specific instruments, right? There are fundamental techniques that are beneficial for you to learn. Moller method, know, very technique for drums, single strokes and double strokes. Very helpful because you can apply those to music. It doesn’t have anything to do with music. I mean, it has something to do with music, but it’s not music, right? It’s, but it will help you.
Quentin Walston (13:08)
Mm-hmm.
Right. Right.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Ari (13:32)
feel more comfortable on an instrument, which is going to be helpful. It’s playing scales, you know, on him. I mean, just general stuff that of course is important. no, I think it’s fine for you to, perfectly fine to neglect whole, know, decades of music or styles or, know.
Quentin Walston (13:35)
Mm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Very
good. Nice. Yeah.
Ari (13:56)
Some people want to,
you don’t want to play with cymbals. Fine, just use drums. you don’t want to play with drums, just use stands, cymbal stands. I play the cymbal stands. That’s my job, you know, okay.
Quentin Walston (14:02)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. There you go. I’d liken your
playing, it’s something that I’ve heard multiple times, it’s something that was on your most recent record on Work Song, where you’ll play the head on the kit. Like that kind of melodic playing.
I remember when we first crossed paths, it probably 10 years ago, I was a student at this jazz residency in Wilmington, Delaware, and you did a master class and somebody asked you to play, I think it was Anthropologie, and you played the melody of Anthropologie on a kit. Where did that develop? That idea of I want to actually execute the melody on my kit.
Ari (14:44)
mean, everything develops one step at a time. I mean, at some point I realized that I could play…
Quentin Walston (14:48)
Pardon.
Ari (14:56)
Well, I think first I started playing the contour of the melody just on the snare, or even just the phrasing of the melody, right? Just to be able to copy Charlie Parker and the way that Charlie Parker would phrase. And so I did that on the snare. Actually, I had a teacher, Ed Sof, that recommended that. And then I noticed that became a pretty common thing just for phrasing.
Quentin Walston (15:03)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mmm
Ari (15:19)
Because bebop phrasing is,
I mean, it’s very American thing, right? I it’s like something that we might hear, but to be able to teach other people the language of jazz, it’s like, you kind of need to teach that phrasing, because it’s really difficult to teach in scientific terms. You really just have to listen to it and try it listen to it and try it, So anyway.
Quentin Walston (15:37)
Yeah.
Ari (15:41)
At some point by doing that, I realized like, I can play the contour of the melody on the drums. And then it became, I can play the actual notes of the melody on the drums. I started with confirmation and I did, that was the first tune that I did. But also, you know, listening to a few drummers that, you know, really influenced me because they did things where they played the contour of the melody on the drums. you know, and Earl Harvin is one, Jeff Hamilton is another one.
Quentin Walston (15:51)
Mmm.
Ari (16:11)
and Jim White also, these are all people that I heard play so melodically. at some point I realized like, it was really hip to do that because they were able to really simplify a song. Instead of drum solo being like, brrrr, you know? Instead it was like, ba-ba, ba-ba-ba-ba, you know what I mean?
Quentin Walston (16:28)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ari (16:35)
and I’m trying
to sing out of tune for the, because the drums would probably be out of tune, but I’m just singing the contour of the melody, but I was really affected by the simplicity of that and the phrasing of that and how it really drew me in to listening, as a listener.
Quentin Walston (16:39)
Yeah.
we have.
Ari (16:51)
not just drawing me in as a drummer because the drummer was playing something drumistically impressive. So anyway, so I realized that I could get the notes on the drums and then it was just about, wow, okay, let me try that song. Let me try this song. Let me try that, you know, different, different basic songs. And, can I play a scale? different kinds of scales. Can I play chromatic scale? Can I play any note? I can play any note I want, but I can’t play a large range. And then, I want to play that song, but it doesn’t fit well to the way that I have the drums tuned.
Quentin Walston (16:56)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
you
Ari (17:21)
if I can tune the drums in a different way and be able to play that song better. And so then it was, you know, 10, 15 years later and four drum tunes, trunk tunings, you know, different ways to tune the drum. And when I’m saying tuning the drums, I’m talking about a four piece kit, which is snare, small tom, floor tom, bass drum. And I don’t generally tune the bass drum to a note because although sometimes it is, or it sounds like it is, but the reason that I don’t is because it’s a…
Quentin Walston (17:33)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ari (17:49)
It’s so much lower than the floor tom that I can’t chromatically get the notes in between that. So anyway, there’s no yes or no to that. It’s just for me, I don’t generally tune the bass drum to a note. But so you’re only really talking about three drums here and trying to get what I…
Quentin Walston (18:07)
You’re welcome.
Ari (18:10)
what I would say claim to be able to get would be probably, I would say, a full octave plus maybe a minor third on top of it or something like that. Maybe just a whole step on top. But at least I can get all the notes. And so with all the notes, you have to make some sacrifices because I’m taking you down this rabbit hole with me. the point is, one day I realized that it was possible to do it. So as a…
Quentin Walston (18:21)
Yeah.
Yeah.
I love it, yeah.
Ari (18:40)
that could be really cool. So let me pursue it. And then I just practice. And the main thing that I practiced again was playing songs. And playing songs, by the way, if anybody sees this interview, take anything, if you take anything away from this, learn songs, learn to play songs, learn to play a lot of songs.
Quentin Walston (18:43)
That’s awesome.
Yeah.
Thank
Yeah.
Ari (19:00)
And
that’s the main thing. if anyone asks me one question that I can share with aspiring musicians or whatever, it’s really that, repertoire, learning songs.
Quentin Walston (19:07)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, and and just I want to zero in on that when you say songs and just for listeners and stuff Are you referring to lyrical songs like like American songbook? Or do you mean like learn some Wayne short or learn some Charlie Parker or is it kind of all the above?
Ari (19:31)
All, all songs, you just learning songs. Yep, it’s a, the song has a name, you learn it. And do I mean you have to learn the lyrics or not?
Quentin Walston (19:35)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Ari (19:42)
This is getting into another, like another little bit of a side quest here, right? It’s like, well, if the lyrics interest you, and especially if you think you might be able to sing them or they might influence the way that you play the song, if you’re into that, then go ahead and learn the lyrics. Like it only adds to the whole experience. For me personally, I started learning lyrics a lot later, I’d say then I started learning the, you know, the music itself. just, cause I started singing
Quentin Walston (19:47)
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Ari (20:12)
and I started performing on piano and singing and I had to learn lyrics to be able to sing songs.
Quentin Walston (20:18)
Yeah,
that is a good point. I yeah, the lyrics can open up a new meaning like days of wine and roses. If you just listen to an instrumental version, you might think it’s a happy song and then you’re like, man, this is not a happy song. So that’s great.
Ari (20:32)
It’s funny, cause I started singing
that song just, don’t know why, but I have no idea what the lyrics are to that song either. well, it’s my homework.
Quentin Walston (20:36)
Yeah. Yeah. There’s no
need for those laughing runaway like a child at play. But yeah, it’s kind of like this melancholy thing of everything’s transient and everything good is going to come to an end. Yeah. Yeah.
Ari (20:45)
that sounds familiar.
Yeah, whoa, deep.
Quentin Walston (20:56)
But anyway, yeah, so I love that. And on that vein of kind of advice, we can talk about some things that teachers might find helpful. So definitely learning songs. In a similar vein, if, let’s say, it’s a high school jazz band teacher or a piano teacher that has private lessons, what should they tell?
drummers or aspiring jazz musicians to listen to because I feel like that’s changed a lot too. I remember when I was in college I was like living in the 40s and 50s and people would be like hey have you checked out the new Snarky Puppy record? I’d be like I’m not ready for that I still need to get over what Sonny Rollins is doing in this record like it’s hard because every year that goes by more and more stuff is added to
the jazz catalog. So how should aspiring artists navigate that huge breadth of material?
Ari (21:55)
It’s also hard because the access you have to it is so much stronger. It’s not even, mean, yeah, okay, one more year goes by in the history of 100 years of that music. But okay, it’s only one more year, but the access that you have to it is, I mean, with online streaming and everything, you can access nearly anything that you want.
Quentin Walston (22:15)
Mm-hmm.
Ari (22:21)
But there’s no real good answer as far as like, if I told you what to listen to or everybody here what to listen to, that would be a mistake because then I would be saying, this is what you should listen to to be a good musician. And that’s no good, right? mean, that’s telling you what to play and what to get inside you. And I mean, I will say though that if anybody’s interested in me and my influences, of course, I recommend my influences because they influence me.
Quentin Walston (22:34)
I see. Yeah.
Mm.
Ari (22:51)
You know and I and I made a list of them. I did a series on patreon. I have a patreon where I where I teach and I and I release all my videos and You know tutorials about a lot about You know drums and about rhythm and composition but but also about a lot of other things in this case, it’s it’s I Called them a desert island
or lockdown tracks, that’s what I call them. But it’s kind of the idea is like you go to a desert island, you take one record, you know. But I think I came up with about 40 records where they influenced me so strongly. And then I just kind of talked down each record and why I liked it so much and talk about everybody’s playing just a little bit and offer it for other people to listen to. But again, it’s offering to other people to listen to. It’s not like,
Quentin Walston (23:22)
Nice. Yeah.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Thanks.
Yeah.
Right.
Ari (23:50)
you should do this, you should listen to that. So that’s there. If you want to look it up, lock down tracks on my Patreon. Yeah.
Quentin Walston (23:53)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, please. Yeah,
so yeah. And so just to, guess, talk about the stuff you have just for listeners. So you have a Patreon. Is that just Patreon slash Ari Honig? Like, can people find more about what you have to offer and stuff like that?
Ari (24:15)
Yeah,
well, my website is a great place to start. It’s just AriHonic.com. And then if you’re interested in educational stuff, there’s a whole education tab. And you click on the education tab, and then it can take you to Patreon. It can take you to my books, my videos. And I do a lot of stuff like that. I do online Zoom master classes. But it’s just a lot of teaching type of stuff. But I think the Patreon thing is kind of the way that I
Quentin Walston (24:38)
Very cool.
Ari (24:45)
able to communicate with people. Technically, I think it’s a social media, but you have to be a member to be able to see all the videos that are there. there’s just a lot of topics, and you can ask questions. sometimes I’ll make a video if you ask a question that hasn’t been answered yet. So that’s the way that I communicate that.
Quentin Walston (24:58)
Thanks
Very cool. Sweet.
We’ll make sure to link to that. I think I have time for one more question, and we’ll do this one about aspiring artists. You’ve been on the scene for a while. It looks like you’re still playing at Smalls. What would you say to aspiring artists that want to get into the scene, that want to be
Ari (25:10)
Yeah.
Quentin Walston (25:30)
It doesn’t have to be necessarily smalls, but play the type of places where people are there to listen to jazz. Because I know a lot of venues for starting out artists, it’s like you’re getting the background gig. You’re at the winery where no one’s paying attention. What would you recommend for people that want to get those coveted spots, whether it’s at a club or a performing arts center or something like that? What would your advice be?
Ari (25:59)
get lucky. We all want to be listened to and there’s things that have to do with the music that demands listeners but also there’s just a lot of being at the right place at the right time to get a good gig.
Quentin Walston (26:02)
There you go. Love it.
Ari (26:18)
that happens, I think we’re all kind of aware of that, you know, and how that kind of stuff works. And I could always say, you know, keep trying, don’t get discouraged. But what does that mean? Because we all get discouraged. so, you know, I don’t think that my advice like that is really helpful. But I look at the bottom line is, you know, if you’re interested in your in your craft and the music,
Quentin Walston (26:27)
Mm-hmm.
Ari (26:47)
Just get better at it and keep pursuing the things that inspire you. And if you do that in a strong way, things will work out.
Quentin Walston (26:51)
Yeah.
Awesome. I love it. Yeah. Just keep working at it. Don’t give up. Get better at playing music.
Ari (27:06)
Again, if it inspires you, don’t try to pursue
stuff that’s not inspiring to you, because it’s not gonna work. You’re never gonna get that. It’s not a thing where you have to buckle down and work and endure a lot of hardships. It’s more just like, wow, I love that, let me just follow that. If you feel that, then this is meant for you.
Quentin Walston (27:11)
That’s true, right?
Mmm.
love that. Awesome. Well, hey, Ari, thank you so much for this interview. This has been really cool to dive in.
Ari (27:34)
you’re welcome, Quentin, no problem.