In this engaging interview with Pat Bianchi, the master of the Hammond B3 jazz organ shares his insights into the unique aspects of jazz organ playing, its historical roots, and the evolution of styles within the genre. He discusses influential figures like Fats Waller, Jimmy Smith, and Dr. Lonnie Smith, and reflects on his own musical journey, inspirations, and current projects. Bianchi emphasizes the importance of creativity and adaptability in jazz, highlighting the interplay between musicians and the significance of the organ in jazz history.
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Interview with Pat Bianchi transcript
Quentin Walston (00:00)
Hello and welcome to an exclusive This Is Jazz interview. My name is Quentin Walston and today I’m sitting down with Pat Bianchi, the Hammond B3 Jazz Organ Master. And more than that, he’s also an incredibly knowledgeable historian. So we’re going to talk about the history of the Jazz Organ, key players, key recordings, and much more. So let’s dive in right now with this interview. Welcome to a This Is Jazz interview. We’ve got Pat Bianchi with us, Jazz Organ Master.
Also historian, band leader, composer, show leader of the organized show on SiriusXM. So thank you for joining us today.
Pat Bianchi (00:38)
Quentin, thank you so much for having me. It’s great to be here.
Quentin Walston (00:41)
Awesome. Well, I want to dive into a lot of organ history. I want to dive into your career as an organist. But before we do that, since we’ve got some just general jazz fans, I think it’s important to kind of bring out the distinctions of the organ. It’s an instrument that we recognize the sound of, but I don’t think everyone realizes everything that goes into playing it. So can you describe what makes jazz organ unique? We know that there’s pedals and
polls and all sorts of things. you dive into that for us?
Pat Bianchi (01:16)
Sure, mean, first of all, it’s a funny thing. remember one of my early mentors would say the only thing that’s similar between playing organ and piano is the fact that keys are black and white, ⁓ which I find to be true the deeper I dive into the instrument because I’m constantly checking out new stuff, whatnot. But one of the big things in terms of playing, well, let’s start with playing the instrument in the genre of jazz. ⁓
Jimmy Smith did, Macduff, Jimmy McGriff, Larry Young. They all played their own bass lines, or the majority of the time they played their own bass lines in the left hand. So unlike piano where you’re playing voicings and comping and or having a bass player in the rhythm section, organ, you are two thirds of the rhythm section basically because you cover your bass lines. And that’s done on the lower keyboard, by the way. And the pedals have an interesting function, kind of depending on what you need them for.
⁓ most cases you tap a pedal, you know, a lot of organists know how to actually play foot bass, but you know, people like Wild Bill Davis and Bill Doggett came up with an idea as if you tap the pedal quick enough, you don’t hear a pitch, but it’s more like feathering a bass drum. So you hear a thud and that’s be, you use that in conjunction with your left hand. That’s because the acoustic bass and electric bass have a nice point on their attack. can hear that center of their
note very cleanly and very obviously, but on the organ it’s more of rounded kind of sound and somewhat ambiguous in a lot of ways unless you know what you’re used to hearing. So by using that pedal and playing quarter notes in unison with your left hand and getting that thud, it helps to bring out the bass line a lot more and help it to be more defined. Of course you can literally double the bass lines with the foot in the pedal. ⁓ Of course you can double the bass lines with the foot and the left hand.
and you get a louder bass sound for more accents. Dr. Lani-Smith would do that all the time. Also, Joe DiFrancisco would do that as well. Also, you can play full-on pedal bass. Barbara Dennerlein wrote a scott, and there’s an organist from Buffalo named Bobby Jones that would do that, and comp with their left hand and play full bass. But majority of people don’t do that. And a lot of people chose to play left hand bass because you could emulate a regular bass a lot more, get a lot of the nuances,
kind of the ghost notes and grace notes and things like that you can’t do with your foot but left hand you can do to make it swing harder. So there’s that side of the instrument but then there’s the right hand which either you’re comping on the top keyboard or sometimes the bottom keyboard or you’re soloing and that’s one big difference between the piano and the organ is you kind of have to split your brain and you walk bass lines or play bass lines and solo or comp and be able to adjust to what the soloist is doing on the fly.
Of course there’s all the drawbars, as you can see behind me, these white and black knobs on the top of the keys where you can pull out different harmonics to get different sounds. So those are the obvious differences. The less obvious differences are the whole idea of dynamics. Since a B3 or a Hammond organ is not touch sensitive, you have to be to use an expression pedal which you control with your right foot.
to articulate your lines or bring the general level of the instrument up and down. And also you have to use that because Oregon’s not touch sensitive. No matter how hard you hit the keys, it’s going to be the same. just doing literally a bunch of on and off switches. You have to really get creative. And like I mentioned, Dr. Lonnie Smith and of course, Joey DiFrancisco were both masters of being able to manipulate that pedal to make the lines.
⁓ they will play you know be like more like warlike in terms of dynamics but then also the overall level of the instrument in terms of all
Quentin Walston (05:06)
It’s interesting. It’s so it’s so counterintuitive, as I imagine for for wind players, they just give more wind for pianists, they give they just push harder. It’s got to take some getting used to that your your foot makes things louder. I remember once I got to try out an accordion. And that was also a counterintuitive thing, because I wasn’t used to moving my hands to make sound. I was just used to pushing a button down. that’s so unique. You brought up the draw bars.
For you, was it a lot of just kind of trial and error or experimenting or are there like certain famous settings? Cause like, I know there’s that like squawk sound that you’ll sometimes hear. is it just finding it or how do you, how do you get that?
Pat Bianchi (05:53)
⁓ Well, there’s, you know, I guess you could say quote unquote stock settings, the Jimmy Smith sound, for example, which is like the first three draw bars and certain other effects. The bass sound is a specific grouping of draw bars. Usually the first draw bar at eight, next one a four, eight. And then like the sound that you’re talking about is like the first draw bar and the last four. So there’s like common quote unquote
sounds that we all use but then there’s also kind of experimenting ⁓ larry golding’s to me with his great with that he gets a very unique sounds out of the instrument you know and he makes them work ⁓ at a lot of ways you know it’s the the instrument really is one of the first synthesizer if you think about it’s all sine wave the straw bar is a sine wave at a different interval and or octave and so you combine them so in a sense it’s like additive synthesis you combine these different
harmonics or sound waves to create different unique sounds. So in a lot of ways you could think about when you’re searching for sounds, it’s like you’re working on an analog synth, of figuring out how to work the envelopes and the filters and what oscillators are doing what. It’s a similar kind of idea in that respect.
Quentin Walston (07:04)
I mean, that idea of it being analog does bring up the fact that it is a historical instrument. So is the Hammond B3 becoming harder and harder to find? Like if someone wants to dive in and learn Hammond, what do they do in that regard?
Pat Bianchi (07:20)
Well, mean, the nice thing is with technology having advanced so much, there’s a lot of quote unquote clone organs, which are digital facsimiles. There’s a number of companies that build them. ⁓ like for example, I work with a company called Viscount that does a lot of work with organs in general. And they all model their instruments after the B3 with the draw bars in the same places of B3, all the different switches in the same places. ⁓
You know, so it’s a relatively easy to get one of those. mean, Nord makes them, you know, Hammond, Suzuki makes them. There’s a bunch of companies that do. So somebody is interested in getting into the instrument. There’s a lot of electronic options that don’t weigh close to 400 pounds, but there’s nothing like the real thing at the same breath. mean, you could have a kiln set up on main stage of a keyscape with the Rhodes, but
sitting down at a well-maintained friend or rose, there’s going to be nothing like it. Or can have a physically modeled acoustic piano, but sitting down at a Steinway D, not going to ever be the same. So same thing with the organs. Once you sit down at the real thing, it’s like, there’s nothing like it. But there’s a lot of options available. And a lot of people actually, because they’re harder to move, you can find them actually
pretty inexpensively or relatively inexpensively on eBay and on Craigslist. I’ve seen them all over place. Reverb, you can buy B3s. ⁓ Similar models, A100, C3s, C2s. There’s a lot of organs out there that you can still find if you want the real thing. So there’s definitely a lot of options for sure.
Quentin Walston (09:01)
Well, let’s dive into the history. You’ve already mentioned some big names, Dr. Lonnie Smith, Joe DiFrancesco. Let’s go to the birth of jazz, ⁓ or the birth of organ in jazz. Now I’ve heard before that Fats Waller was one of the first. Is that true that Fats was kind of at the beginning of experimenting with organ in jazz?
Pat Bianchi (09:23)
Yeah, was fat swaller was actually the first he grew up playing stride piano and actually mentored under James P. Johnson actually lived with him as a teenager. And ⁓ so that’s where you got to start in music. And he also eventually played theater organ and played for silent movies. And with the advent of Hammond, he kind of switched over that, you know, as at first is a little bit of a novelty, but then he ended up getting really into it. And
For example, Jitterbug Waltz is the first recorded Hammett organ, I believe, in a jazz context. And also, I think Jitterbug Waltz was the first jazz tune written in 3-4.
Quentin Walston (10:04)
⁓ I didn’t realize that.
Pat Bianchi (10:06)
Yeah, he was ⁓ actually his son was practicing. I don’t believe it was a Bach invention or something like that. And something in hearing his son play that particular invention or whatever ⁓ a prelude or something it was kind of inspired him to write Jitterbug Waltz. That’s awesome. So that’s where it of started. he did, you know, he did some there was some early recordings of ⁓ him playing with a guitar and percussion and the quote, you know, somewhat of a jazz organ.
we think about you the organ guitar drums that he was doing as well as doing some spirituals ⁓ there’s one on youtube called go down i believe it’s called go down to moses i think i don’t remember off topic but you can google it and the first part he’s singing with very traditional gospel ⁓ spiritual very classical type organ playing but then when he goes to the solo it kind of sounds and swings like a big band of that era
You know, it’s really interesting to listen to that. So he did really start the whole thing
Quentin Walston (11:07)
That’s fascinating. And you brought up the the kind of the gospel and spiritual part and I feel like that’s also had a huge ⁓ influence on jazz organ. I mean the instrument itself goes back over a thousand years I think in the Catholic Church. But I mean even if you listen to Jimmy Smith I mean he has the famous The Sermon album. It seems like there’s been a big
gospel presence in Oregon as well. Is that something that you would say is true?
Pat Bianchi (11:41)
they
kind of were a little bit different tracks. Because, know, there’s the way I’ve been able to ascertain in terms of all the research I’ve done, there was the quote unquote jazz, which really wasn’t jazz, we know of a big band kind of swing style, I guess you could say. There was the Gospels, which Oregon, which kind of started around 1939, I believe it was in Chicago, which was the first
of the gospel and then pop organ, unquote, pop like Ethel Smith is an example. It doing Tico Tico, things like that. And of course, ⁓ they all converge in different ways throughout the time of the music, because it’s all rooted in black music. All that stuff is rooted in black music. But the thing is, like to me, like Jimmy Smith, when you’re getting into that era, quote unquote, era, Jimmy Smith, Jack McDuff, they kind of
come out of, mean, of course, growing up with the churchsters, those elements, but also Louis Jordan, it not Louis Jordan? It was, I believe, yeah, Louis Jordan and the ⁓ Symphony Five was the group that he had. It was kind of a jump blues swing group from like the 30s and the 40s. And he had both Wild Bill Davis play and Bill Doggett, which is more of like a swingin’ blues kind of style. And they definitely are drawing out of that a lot.
Quentin Walston (12:57)
Okay.
Pat Bianchi (13:08)
people like Jimmy Smith, like that, because it was almost like the popular music in certain respects of that era too. ⁓ also, Fats Waller was an influence. Count Basie was another one that people don’t talk about as much because Count Basie, who was coming out of the jazz thing, studied under Fats and actually was one of the first to use the organ in the big band setting, replacing people in the big band because of
financial difficulties of keeping a full big band at one point. He pared it down and would play organ with a smaller version of the big band. But all these styles are kind of constantly intersecting, because it’s all rooted in black music in that respect. But to me, the strong, strong gospel influence of what we think of as gospel organ is something I really feel like I kind of hear more with Jimmy McGriff. And there’s a record called Bag Full of Soul.
And if you listen to the second track on there called DB Blues, DB Blues 1 and 2, the way he’s voicing, the way he’s using the Leslie, it feels like it’s direct out of the church at that point. Whereas Jimmy Smith was, yeah, there’s definitely those influences, Macduff, there’s those influences, but you can hear more of the quote unquote blues and the John Blues, however you want to say, elements in the music versus literally pulling.
from the way they were playing. And again, this is just my interpretation of what I’ve been in terms of research and things I listen to and things like that.
Quentin Walston (14:44)
It sounds like there’s like kind of, guess, three big influences. You mentioned the jazz with the Fats Waller and then the blues bands and one of the more popular kind of rhythm and blues bands and then the gospel. So three different tracks kind of converging and that convergence is what in the late, late fifties?
Pat Bianchi (15:02)
⁓ well with that that would i would say with the all of the start happening in the late fifties mcgriff it kind of comes more in the sixties things like that and ⁓ you know you can hear more more of of the gospel elements in especially with mcgriff in the sixties to because also the other thing to keep in mind is it wasn’t until the ⁓ there early fit mid fifties that there was a leslie speaker was a little bit fifties of
I’m trying to remember exactly, but the organ came first and there wasn’t a Leslie speaker right away. And to me, that’s one of the huge parts of how gospel organists play is the way they use the Leslie speaker and just make the whole thing come to life. So that didn’t come in right away. It came in a little bit later. So maybe the mid fifties, late fifties, but definitely by the sixties, there was a lot of cross, you know, in terms of the music and the playing styles.
Quentin Walston (15:58)
Yeah, because when I think of the jitterbug waltz, it doesn’t have the Leslie sound. It’s just that kind of really clean. Yeah, interesting. So when we’re looking at the development of Oregon by the 50s and 60s, we have Jimmy Smith. I think you mentioned Jack McDuff and a lot. It’s like they all have a unique sound to them. But in.
Pat Bianchi (16:05)
Straight sound, yeah.
Quentin Walston (16:25)
general, a lot of the organists are still kind of within that bluesy sound. Like I feel like you don’t have as much of the bebop coming out like you would hear later on or even in like Larry Young’s playing. When do we start to see organists that really start branching out and trying out things that are outside of the kind of blues sphere?
Pat Bianchi (16:53)
Well, actually it starts in 1956, 57 with Jimmy Smith because Jimmy’s earliest recordings, if you listen to Live at Small’s Paradise, a new star, new sound, ⁓ know, what’s the other one? ⁓ Live at Club Baby Grand. He’s playing in a way that is completely different. Everything is the same, obviously it’s single note, it’s very staccato.
He’s playing a lot more vertical like as you can see. You can hear him arpeggiating the changes a lot more. He’s playing more standards and things like that. So that’s really where it starts because Jimmy was really influenced by people like Bud Powell or Tatum, things like that when he came to the Oregon. So he did it at that point, he was bringing a lot of that stuff with him. The recording, cool blues is with like him, Lou Donaldson.
Tina Brooks on saxophone as well and Art Blakey and they’re going for it. It’s a live set and it’s just like there’s stuff you hear there that’s incredible and it’s just like by what we today we consider modern and also there was a trio that was in existence for a little while which was Jimmy Smith, John Coltrane and Charlie Percival on drums and there was a lot of influence. There was I think it was in train on Coltrane’s biography where he says that the whole idea of sheets of sound was something he heard Jimmy Smith do early on.
and that kind of influenced him in that respect. So it was kind of there that it started. Also in the late 50s, Shirley Scott, who’s another Philadelphia organist, came on the scene and she was not only incredible bebop piano player, but when she went to Oregon, she was playing a lot of bebop on the organ. And had a bass player and drums with her, but…
still all the bebop lines and still had all the blues and soulful stuff and elements at the church and are playing but it was very hip and very very bebop oriented and in the sixties there was Don Patterson who was another Philadelphia it was originally from Columbus Ohio I believe but he lives in Philadelphia and he was hardcore stone cold bebop all the way if you go search him you’ll hear him playing Charlie Parker tunes you’ll hear him playing
you know, Monk tunes, all that kind of stuff. And he could do all the other stuff. You know, he could play the bluesy stuff, but he had a command of that bebop language that was pretty much second to none, you know? And a lot of those people from the Philadelphia area, a lot of those organists played more like that than anything. The thing that kind of changed, I think, is when Jimmy Smith, after he came out with Organ Grinders swing, I believe he switched to Verve Records. It was like in the early 60s, 62.
and organ grinder swing which is kind of like a crossover record from playing the the jazzy stuff to go into more of the bluesy kind of stuff and more of groove oriented stuff. ⁓ That’s when things started to change a little bit more and kind of became part of a certain sound because it was more identifiable with people in the clubs. know, not everybody was, you know, even at that time, not everybody was a jazz fan, you know, but if they could hear the blues, they could hear rhythm and blues and the off, ⁓
a great feel, you know, it’s something they could relate to and recognize. And, you know, the people working with Jimmy Smith at that time, and the business aspect, right, I think recognized that along with Jimmy. And so things became a little bit more commercial, you know, when you do like, got my mojo working, you know, things along those lines, you know, where it was more audience friendly, and a lot of people took to that. ⁓
in terms of other organists were drawn to that kind of thing. And that’s, think, where you hear some of those kind of sounds and people come from. The thing, like, it would be an example, like, perfect reaction, Larry Young in his very early years ⁓ was the record I believe is testifying. And he’s playing, he sounds like Jimmy Smith, not as fast, but all those, the same sound, same kind of ideas.
bluesy kind of stuff and a lot of people were drawn to that before you know Bob is a Larry Young evolved in one of other things but You know John Patton another example, you know grabbing gravitating towards to the funkier side of things, you know early years Dr. Lonnie Smith though he could burn and play the other stuff you could hear alligator Boogaloo and all those early Lou Donaldson recordings It’s a lot of that kind of sound that Jimmy Smith went to later on for sure. Yeah
Quentin Walston (21:26)
Man, that’s fascinating. And there’s so many little side roads I want to go on, but I know we got to keep trucking on. you brought up, ⁓ well, I do want to cover, because my big introduction to Larry Young, I went over to my college professor’s listening room, and he has ⁓ just crazy audio file, and he puts on Larry Young’s Unity. And I was like,
20 or something. That was first time I heard it and just blew my mind. That kind of modal approach. So ⁓ was Larry Young unique in that or is that just kind of what organists were gravitating to as the 60s unfurled into the 70s and so on or
Pat Bianchi (22:12)
Well, I think Larry Young was unique to it. He wasn’t the first. Actually, Jimmy was the first, Jimmy Smith. There’s some recordings where he did movie soundtracks and some other rare recordings. I remember getting from Joe DiFrancisco. He pointed this out to me. You could hear that kind of fourths, those intervallic kind of things. mean, though Jimmy didn’t really follow, you know, really make a
⁓ I want to say he didn’t develop a vocabulary as deep as Larry Young did. He was doing it earlier for sure. And I think Larry might’ve even heard that. But up until like the point, ⁓ you know, 66, 67 when Unity was recorded, there was nobody that had played like that. And Larry Young really set a trend that way. I mean, in terms of, like I said, the intervallic playing of force using pentatonics.
⁓ People would say he was the John Coltrane of Oregon. I always felt like was more McCoy Tyner-like. Excuse me. Just using those kind of structures and using the pentatonix so much. ⁓ But yeah, Larry Young was very unique in that. And I think taking the instrument quote unquote out, because if you listen to the next record, Contrasts, that came out about a year after Unity, you could hear as a composer,
Quentin Walston (23:14)
Heddle stuff.
Pat Bianchi (23:34)
And in terms of the concept of playing, he was going further into more exploratory areas. And by the time he’s with the Tony Williams lifetime thing, he’s just doing all sorts of stuff. But he was always kind of pushing the envelope for where the organ could go. mean, I guess it’s like a natural progression for a musician of that level of ability just to see how far you could push it and be creative with it.
Quentin Walston (23:58)
Another incredible creative person I had the pleasure to see live was Dr. Lonnie Smith. And just the way that his compositions and his arrangements, like he did this on one of his records, I can’t remember what it was, but he did Straight No Chaser. And it was like this crazy chord that was like planing. And it was just, it wasn’t Straight No Chaser. It was something completely new. ⁓ And…
Lonnie Smith mentored you, is that right?
Pat Bianchi (24:30)
He was one of the people, you he was always very supportive, you know, through the years, he gave me a lot of advice, you know, he actually got me onto Lou Donaldson’s gig when he couldn’t make it. So then I started subbing before he joined Lou’s band. But Lonnie, mean, his, you know, I think it’s taken a long time for people to realize how important he’s been to the music, ⁓ not only to Oregon, but, you know, the music in general, because his creativity, like you’re saying, that’s the first thing, the creativity.
⁓ I think the way he, and also how you kind of paraphrase how he ⁓ sculpts and molds tunes, and he’s not playing, you know, Jimmy Smith’s speed or Joey’s kind of runs, but what he does and the way he draws everybody, musician or not, into the music. And I think that’s just in of itself is such a special thing that any average person off the street, if they saw him play, they would be kind of just mesmerized by what he does. And he really just pulls people in.
the amount of emotion that he brings. then also the like the kind of like at times like the childlike kind of thing where it’s like, you know, he’s like a little kid playing a toy and he’s just having a ball and he’s like, what can this do? What can this do? What can that do? And I think that that that that grabs at people in a certain respect that just playing, you know, it’s like, yeah, I can play Coltrane to just big deal. You know, the average person is not going to care. But, you know, it’s like what he’s doing and.
As a result, music that comes out of it, and especially the dynamics, I mean, from a whisper to a roar, and it all makes perfect sense. You know, and it’s like that, that in of itself is special. And you know, and the other thing that Ilani had that I thought was a real innovation that people don’t mention as much is, we were talking about the bass pedals at the beginning of the interview, and Ilani had a certain way, because he played a lot of groove tunes too, and funk, just played killing pocket stuff.
And he would use the pedals in a certain way where he would double certain notes, almost double certain notes, play this on the pedal, do this in combination with his left hand that made the bass lines come alive like a lot of organ players had never really done that I have heard her do before. And it felt more like a literally another another person in the band or literally a bass player because the way he manipulated those lines and
made the base come to life beyond just a walking or like a bossa pattern for like a boogaloo or something. He had all these things he would do. So I think that’s another innovation that he came up with, you know, when he really developed.
Quentin Walston (27:03)
I think, I mean, that creativity and I love the way you described like how you just kind of exploring the instrument. ⁓ I can’t remember if I read it somewhere and I guess you can confirm maybe was he self-taught? Or did he or like he couldn’t read music or something?
Pat Bianchi (27:24)
He was, I think he, well, I think he was to a degree self-taught. mean, he was raised in a musical family and his mother introduced him to, you know, classical gospel jazz, all the things like that. And he was actually also a singer. He was, I was actually reading this the other night, an article or something, you know, and, you know, he was a vocalist first, I think. And,
He’s saying in a band and he was from around from the Buffalo, New York area and Grover Washington Jr. was one of the other vocalists in that band at the time. So they kind of came up with that in that way. But I mean, I imagine he played piano and you know, I think it was, know, might have saw Jimmy Smith or something and that kind of got the gears turning. And then there was a person in Buffalo who owned a music store named Art.
Kubera, believe it was, he saw that Dr. Leismith was really interested and he told them, if you can get this organ out of this music store on your own, it’s yours. he figured out how to do it. got it back to his place and just kind of, guess, taught himself in a lot of ways or worked on it. And eventually moved to New York and started playing with George Benson and the Cookbook band and meeting Lou and traveling and
playing with all sorts of people throughout the years.
Quentin Walston (28:50)
Yeah, that’s fascinating. I ask because sometimes it seems that some musicians that are self-taught have a different kind of creativity. Like Duke Ellington was self-taught ⁓ and Errol Garner was self-taught. And it’s like they’re both wildly creative. And I didn’t know if there’s maybe a connection like because you don’t know what rules are supposed to be there. You might find yourself thinking out of the box in different ways. So that’s just an aside thought.
Let’s talk about one ⁓ other organist and then I want to talk about your music. ⁓ You mentioned Joey DeFrancisco and he also had the organized ⁓ show, I believe. so he, like you, I believe, did a lot to both preserve the history but also move the music forward. So what was your relationship with Joey and any insights that you have about his music?
Pat Bianchi (29:50)
Yeah, well was very fortunate that when I was in college, got to meet, I got to, you know, indirectly meet Joey. ⁓ The way the story goes is I was in my senior year at school and I had a Hammett Organ at home, an M100, which had the foot bass, you couldn’t play left hand bass on it. And I was around a lot of people that time that were like, yeah, to be a real organist, you got to play all bass with your feet. So I kind of was of that mentality.
and there was a users group or an internet forum mailing list at that time called Hammond organ users and they would talk about playing technique history all that kind of stuff and um… one day a conversation starts about jack mcduff literally talking about playing left hand bass and the way he would tap the pedals to get a certain sound so you know being an arrogant college kid you know i kind of chained in and said nah you don’t do that you gotta play actual foot bass and this whole
Quentin Walston (30:43)
⁓
Pat Bianchi (30:44)
argument kind of started between me and somebody called the authority on this group you know mine is worldwide everybody’s reading it and we just go back and forth until a mutual friend of mine of ours calls me up and he goes do you realize who you’re talking to on this internet forum it’s like not he won’t even identify who he is why should i even care he goes well you’ve been arguing with joey de francesco all week you know so i was like eight
1920 something like that when that happened and so I immediately got on because you live at the five spot had already come out and that was a record I loved you know it was probably one of the reasons for me continuing and pursuing one pursuit Oregon further I get it so I get I email I even I’m man I apologize and realize it was you you know and again you know I’m so sorry and then ten minutes later I get an email response with a phone number and that was it you know so I was nervous
So I was like, all right, I just got to call it up. So I called it up and I, you know, and I was like, hello. And he’s like, hello. And he’s like, like, yeah, this is Pat Bianchi calling. He goes, oh yeah, man, how’s that left foot doing? You know, the first thing just to give me a hard time with that. But, you know, and then I, that was probably 1997. And so I had known him for very, you know, I was fortunate to know him for a very long time and work with him on a couple of occasions and be mentored.
you know, by him over the years. And I mean, he, he, kind of was the head of resurgence of the instruments. And I think he set a new bar in a lot of ways, you know, that it’s, I mean, his musical abilities was superhuman. I mean, it was one of the most naturally gifted people ever could see or ever heard too. And, know, of course that was an inspiration for me. And instead of feeling like, I’ll never get there. It inspired me to figure out ways to try to get my game up, I guess, and figure out why.
does this work or how does he do this or you know and just work at it and it’s been a never-ending thing so he’s but I mean very very very important the legacy you know and you know of course he knew all the cats the organs of the previous generations of people were talking about so that’s a direct was a direct link to a lot of that music and to those people and ⁓
You know, mean, his impact, think, on music and on organ, the Ham and Organ will be felt forever. sure.
Quentin Walston (33:07)
I love that story. You never know who’s behind that username.
Pat Bianchi (33:12)
You just never know. We never know who you’re talking to in general.
Quentin Walston (33:16)
Yeah, man, that’s great. Well, let’s let’s talk about your music. So I didn’t really sounds like you took up organ a little bit later. What was your was piano your primary instrument before that?
Pat Bianchi (33:29)
No, I actually started in Oregon first, but I started, was a farfisa Oregon of all things. As I come from a family of musicians, ⁓ my father’s a drummer, both grandfathers were horn players, and in Rochester, New York in those earlier years, dance band music was really big, and which, I mean, by dance band, was like big band paired down to like a small group format. And so my father would record the gigs that he would play on the weekends, and we would sit and listen to him, and I…
expressed interest, I guess, in what I thought was an organ in the band, but it was actually what’s called a chord vox, is a accordion with organ electronics in it. But they saw that I was interested in the music and all that kind of stuff. So for my seventh Christmas, I was seven years old for Christmas, I got a Farfisa organ from one grandfather and the other grandfather gave me an amplifier to go with it. So I would spend…
just hours in the basement learning how to play all these big band standards on on organ playing bass and all that kind of stuff and eventually doing jam sessions with my grandfathers and my dad in the basement and then by the time I think was 12 or 13 I was starting to do some of these gigs with them at like Elks clubs and things like that and private events so and I you know by the time I was maybe 10 or 11 I started classical piano lessons and
it didn’t take to what obviously is well i think that they didn’t have the same kind of passions i did for the other stuff but in high school i had a band director who ⁓ was a great jazz pianist so that’s kind of in high school where i got the thing of you know learning left-hand voicings and kind of getting into the whole thing then but not it was actually organ first and then switching later they going back to oregon
Quentin Walston (35:14)
That’s awesome. And man learning learning standards at that young age, I’m sure just opened up your your ears and just put all that language in you like that’s man. That’s awesome. So
Pat Bianchi (35:28)
I’m
grateful for those experiences.
Quentin Walston (35:30)
Yeah,
man. You’ve obviously then you’ve played you have a big discography you’ve played in a bunch of different groups and different lineups. I mean, an organ trio can have a guitar often as a copying instrument. I also have a saxophone. there one I want to say is there a preference because I mean, I’m sure you have a group now and you’re obviously playing with who you prefer but
How do you find that you have to change your sound based on the lineup or is it just kind of more based on the person or how do you reconcile with different kind of organ lineups?
Pat Bianchi (36:09)
I think it has to do less with the lineups and more with the players themselves. Like at one point I was doing a quartet project with guitarist Paul Ballenbeck and ⁓ drummer Byron Landham and vibraphonist Joe Locke. And so there’s three copying instruments in the same band. So just everybody figures out how to make it work and you adjust your thing. But then when I was playing with Pat Martino, ⁓
I will play different because that ⁓ situation required a different approach versus Lou Donaldson. So I think it really is more about the musicians and you adapt to that ⁓ versus the instrumentation for the most part, at least for me generally speaking. Because I’ll play, I love Tenor Organ Drums Trio.
And it’s what I’m doing ⁓ a project with that at the moment. And there’ll be a lot of times when even the tenor player, I’ll just play bass. I won’t even comp that much because it’s just, it works for the music, you know. So whereas I’ll play with some guitar players and I have to comp more. So it just depends on the situation of the musicians and where they’re kind of going to.
Quentin Walston (37:22)
So as musicians, know, we’re always growing, always finding inspiration. Is there anything that’s a sound that you’re after right now? Is there anything that you’re reaching for in your own playing?
Pat Bianchi (37:36)
I think it’s always a thing number one of hand independence, know, constantly pulling those hands further apart. Because you’re dealing with harmonic vocabulary and rhythmic vocabulary at the same time. So keeping those kinds of things such as developing a further independence. But also I think there’s a difference in playing, for example, Lazy Bird versus playing Anna Maria, harmonically speaking. And it’s like,
So learning how to, you know, constantly working on playing lines or figuring out ways to play lines that I don’t need to have a guitar player or comping instrument in order for it to sound like I’m playing the changes, you know. So it’s just a further, I don’t know if it’s a further studies in harmony or just looking at different ways to imp, to play lines and for certain kinds of compositions. Humpty Dumpty when I was working on that tune, that was one of those things that’s kind of like that where it’s like,
⁓ I want to be able to feel like I can play the changes or play a melody over the changes and not have to have a guitar player play, you know, E flat, D major, G flat, F and just push those constantly. So those are big things for me these days.
Quentin Walston (38:53)
Where can we find you? Your tour, your website, where do we find Pat Bianchi?
Pat Bianchi (38:59)
Yeah, you know, could go to Instagram, Pat Bianchi Official. My website’s www.patbianchi.com. Facebook, Pat Bianchi Official. know, just Google me, I’m around.
Quentin Walston (39:11)
Huge thank you to Pat Bianchi for sitting down with me for this interview and thank you for watching. If you want to learn more about jazz, whether it’s the history, the theory, how to teach it and more, you can check that out at our website, thisisjazz.com. Thanks a lot and I’ll see you the next time.